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    Deciding not to imbibe? Kym chats with Evelyn Chick about non alcoholic options at home or venues

    Deciding not to imbibe? Kym chats with Evelyn Chick about non alcoholic options at home or venues

    This week we are sharing the second half of our interview with award-winning global hospitality professional, Evelyn Chick.

    We talk about the rising trend of mindful drinking or sober curious folk looking for choice when deciding not to imbibe as well as maintaining control of our mental well-being. Farewell to those moments of 'hang-xiety'.

    I also speak to Evelyn about how to approach the category of alcohol-free drinks and what to look for in non-alcoholic drinks both at the bar and in the home. We both agree that consumers are looking for non-alcoholic serves that provide the same 'inclusive' drinking experience as those drinking alcohol.  

    Evelyn also shares some insight into Canada's non-alcoholic drink scene. She explains that the demand by consumers, bartenders and brands is resulting in a an elevation of non-alcoholic serve options in the bars and clubs. 

    This is exciting for us in Australia looking for better non-alcoholic drinking experiences. If our bartenders and brands continue to introduce and maintain the standard in high quality alcohol free drinks the segment looks ripe to get better for those choosing not to imbibe.

    Be sure to also take a look at the second part of this interview that shares Evelyn's top tips for incorporating leaf tea into your non-alcoholic cocktails (read it here). Cheers to that!

    Once again a big thanks to Evelyn Chick who shared her time with us to have this chat ~ it was a real pleasure!

    How to approach non-alcoholic drinks in the home or at the bar

    Top 5 tips:

      1. Create an inviting, universal and inclusive social experience that caters for drinkers and non-drinkers.
      2. Offer a non-alcoholic serve option as it helps to moderate drinking yet still provides that safe social experience. Just please don't call it a 'mocktail'. Terminology is important and the word carries a negative stigma and often makes the person not imbibing feel isolated. 
      3. Non-alcoholic cocktails can be created for our health and wellness preferences for unsweetened, no artificial flavour or colours as well as making use of local ingredients. Extra bonus is that they can often be created from pantry ingredients!  
      4. Explore the flavour profiles of these exciting categories in the low and no alcohol space: non-alcoholic distillates; non-alcoholic beer; tea infusions; tonics and shrubs. Just be mindful to check the process of creating these drinks as some of these contain low ABV over others that contain zero ABV. ABV = alcohol by volume that is within those particular ferments as the process and the longer length of ferment can increase alcohol content. 
      5. Consumers can drive demand in venues by asking for better options in non-alcoholic serves.  

    If reading the interview is a little daunting be sure to head over to East Forged's YouTube to watch the Video Interview Here.

    The full transcript below:

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    So hello everyone. It's Kym here from East Forged. This is our first attempt at a blog or vlog today, and we're really excited to have a very special guest for you.

    I'd like to begin our interview by acknowledging the Jagera and Turrbul people. The traditional owners of the place where I am today in Brisbane, Queensland. I'd also like to acknowledge their elders past, present and emerging. And I would like to extend that acknowledgement to the traditional owners right across the country and the world, wherever you are listening or reading this interview today.

    Today we're very pleased to have an international guest for our blog, Evelyn Chick. Tania and I came across Evelyn at a digital event produced by the Tales of the Cocktail Foundation this year. There was one particular masterclass that caught my eye, which was called Zero Proof 101.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    And that's where Evelyn was taking the masterclass. We were drawn to Evelyn's industry experience as a bartender and a bar consultant and a personal interest in bars developing inclusive service for customers that may be moderating or abstaining from alcohol. And as flavour geeks ourselves it was the approach to the development of zero proof drinks that made her someone we were very keen to chat with, and we were really grateful that she has agreed to join us today.

    We're going to cover three topics with Evelyn today.

    1. We're just going to look at the role of non alcoholic drinks in providing a solution for those encountering drinking related anxiety. Sometimes also known as "hang-xiety" or after party regret.

    2. We're going to ask Evelyn a little bit about the low and no alcohol scene in Canada.

    3. And we particularly, we know Evelyn's a bit of a passionate tea enthusiast as are we. And we'll, we want to ask her a little bit more about how she incorporates these ingredients tisanes and botanicals, into modern alcohol free drinks that can be enjoyed in the home. [covered in last week's blog, link at the end of transcript]

    So before we get started, I'm just going to hand over to Evelyn to introduce herself and what she's up to these days. And maybe she can give us a little bit of an idea of how she's fallen into this, non alcoholic drinks or zero proof drinks area as well. Okay. So I'll hand it over to you, Evelyn for introduction.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    Awesome. Well, thank you for having me Kym. And I'm very excited that we got to connect over a virtual event. I, you know, the world is constantly changing, so it's really nice to connect with people actually across the globe a lot easier. It seems. So my name is Evelyn chick and I'm the founder of evelynchickprojects.com, which is a creative hub for drinking enthusiasts. So on my website, there's actually a plethora of non-alcoholic mixers and non-alcoholic serves that are easily executable at home.

    And I'm also a beverage director for a hospitality group in Toronto and in Vancouver called the Donnelley group. So in terms of kind of designing bar programs and designing drink menus I've been doing that for about 13 years now, which is quite a long time. Yeah. And I feel like the trends around the drinks industry have sort of gone full circle almost.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    You always see sort of the same trends come back and forth. And I think a trend or, you know a new kind of style and a new way of drinking isn't necessarily going to go away, which is the low and no ABV serves and through sort of designing bar programs and doing a lot of media appearances in the last few years, there's just been a huge interest in those particular serves because a lot of the younger generation is getting into the sort of health and wellness trends that you see on social media and, you know, with so many different non-alcoholic spirit alternatives, non alcoholic tea, and beer alternatives coming up. It's just sort of a natural progression not to not drink or not imbibe, but just to provide better and more options for the consumers.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    Fantastic. Yeah, it's certainly an area that's just sort of taking off here in Australia. And when we looked at other more mature markets such as Canada and the UK as well just the number of drinking options that are non-alcoholic is, is I think you might've mentioned in your masterclass, I think since 2015, the number of brands that have come on with 50 or something. Yeah.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    Yeah, that's a statistic I pulled a coup I think about a year ago. So even on its own, a lot of international brands have popped up.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    Fantastic. Which is obviously great for someone like yourself looking to bring new ideas into the bars and also for the home as well, which we'll get onto. I wanted to just move on to our first sort of topic or area for discussion. So this idea about hangover, anxiety, or hang-xiety and after party regret it's something that we hear our community talk about in terms of why they might be looking to moderate or abstain from drinking, or not taking part in imbibing as you mentioned. Really just like to hear your thoughts about the role of bars in providing options for these drinkers inclusive options. And I think that was one of the particular areas we picked up on that you're interested in. What are your thoughts on, on what you're seeing there?

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    So I think in terms of creating options for a bar a bar scene, or even an event scene or anything that has to do with curating a social experience, you sort of have to look at how many groups and how many guests you can, we call it touches how many guests you can touch per experience. So for myself, because I curate a bar programs for multiple venues, you sort of have to look at it. Like you're not trying to win over those guests that are already into cocktails already into alcohol serves. You're trying to create a space where people from all walks of life, whether or not they are your particular demographic can walk in and feel welcome and feel inclusive. And I think that's a big part of inclusivity and in terms of sort of hang-xiety and, you know, that kind of mental space that a lot of people do get into.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    I mean, this is probably the best time to talk about it because the world is so uncertain that has to do you know, with an alcohol serves that kind of changes your perspective on things. Obviously it alters your mental state after a little bit, it kind of almost elevates the, like that little bit of anxiety, whether or not you're imbibing a lot, or you're just kind of dabbling. So I think just providing that non-alcoholic serve option will help also moderate drinking still provide that experience that you need because we're naturally social people. So, you know, when you take away your community spaces or when you make community spaces at least in Canada, right now, everything shut down because of the pandemic, when you're providing this sort of community safe, people are making a very informed making a very unique choice to go visit your establishment. So you just want to make sure that whatever you're offering is universal and global and inclusive.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    And, and how does that sort of translate I guess, into the home and being a good host in your home? It, do you see that there is an interest particularly with the work that you're doing with your sort of in-home cocktails program? Do you see people interested in, in non-alcoholic drinks is, is equally as going out,

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, why it hasn't caught on so much previously is because it seems very unapproachable and it's like, there were not as many options out there to just sort of mix something at home. And again, when I was speaking about wellness and health a lot of people are actually cutting down on and sort of artificial flavours. So when you look at, you know, especially in North America there's a lot of very high sugar content, high artificial colouring, high artificial flavour serves out there. So with my sort of online presence in online classes, I try to, even if I'm doing a masterclass on spirits to speak about a non-alcoholic option for that particular serve and kind of just get people thinking about different ways, they can actually execute these cocktails that we pay so much attention to when it contains alcohol. But also kind of give them an option that is pretty much very approachable and ingredients that are easy to find, especially in your local grocery store or, you know, a local farmer's market, because we're trying to support local businesses things that you can just pick up and whip up at home. So I think, again, it's just providing that option and giving a little bit of guidance as to how they can approach it.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    And we'll come on a little bit more later to the actual development of those strengths, because I really loved the way your mind works and how you break it down. So that's, that's great. I guess just, just on that last touching on those last points what are the, is there any sort of way to categorize the options for consumers that may not be imbibing these days in terms of what they might be able to look out for in the bars for, for non-alcoholic options?

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's such an interesting way to put it because, in my seminar, it tells a cocktail actually talk about language a lot. So you know, we can call it non-alcoholic or zero proof or you know, temperance or, you know, whatever you want to call that particular category of drinks. And I sort of spoke about how the word mocktail is a little outdated and I love that point and I always keep bringing it up because I think mocktails have a certain stigma behind it and it kind of isolates the individual who may not be imbibing in that particular situation.

    So I like calling it that particular thing. So say for example, you know, I work with left non alcoholic distillate quite a bit, and it's essentially almost like how you distill an aerosol or a perfume where it is distilled like a spirit, but it's, dealcoholised after. So all those beautiful herbs and flavours remain in that particular distillate, and it kind of just takes a little bit of working with to understand how those flavours come out. So non alcoholic distillates would be sort of a category you can look for non alcoholic beer, tea infusions. I spoke a little bit about if you haven't seen for those of your watching my seminar [link in YouTube vlog]

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    Go and have a look, definitely we'll put up the link.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects

    They're actually a lot of concentrates out there and really interesting tonics that are out in the market right now things like kombucha, anything that's fermented is also really interesting, but I would just definitely be careful of the percentage of ABV, which is alcohol by volume that is within those particular ferments cause sometimes when it does ferment for a little bit longer the alcohol content can go up. So there's so many different categories of non alcoholic serves. You can look for I think it just kind of depends on what your flavour profile is and what you're gravitated towards.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    I think it's it's very exciting and it's great to be able to break it down like that. And it just makes it more approachable. I think for people when they do get into the situation where they're looking at a menu and they can start to work out exactly what they're looking at. And what were the base of a lot of these drinks are coming from, and I really loved your point there about the terminology, I think it definitely exists in this non-alcoholic space and we're where we're drinks are emerging, but we also find even the words around sort of the product that we produce, which is nitrogen infused sparkling cold-brew tea. If we refer to it, as I say tea, it also comes with some connotations of very high sugar and, and things like that. So it's important that language, I think, that we use to going forward to make sure we represent these drinks correctly.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    Fantastic. Okay. Well let's move on to the second question then, because we've, as I've mentioned before in Australia, and particularly, I guess we've seen an emergence of this category, a category of drinks and, and our communities is small, but they're very, very passionate in terms of low and no alcohol. What, what if you found in, in Canada and Toronto, particularly where you are we'd love to hear how, how we sort of stack up against the rest of the world.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    It's actually interesting because a few years ago, I want to say a few years ago, I think all the time to sort of meshes together now, but the terminology, you know, sober, curious, and the different months that people choose not to imbibe so sober October, and then it became sober November and sober January. So there's a lot of curiosity around it. And I think, I don't remember a particular aha moment when I realized that the industry is really caught on, but I know that at my previous bar, pretty ugly bar, which has now been permanently shut, unfortunately happens, but we went out on a high note for sure. So, so in terms of, you know, curating that particular bar program we always sort of look for things that are coming up and coming, I think based out of different markets.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    So that's around the time that the non-alcoholic distillates started popping up in our market. So I was mentioning before Seedlip was a a non-alcoholic distilliates that spun out of the UK and around those that particular couple years one of the, one of the pretty big new non-alcoholic beer companies called partake started coming up with not only non-alcoholic lagers, but they did a blonde ale and stout, like new England style, pale ale. So all these different things weren't particularly explored before. And that's also the phase where a lot of juice companies are producing kombucha. So I felt like it almost was like a domino effect of really good products that started coming out and then bartending community followed, n that sort of market trend. And we started creating and really thinking about what it means to create something that is not only a mocktail, but I really thought well thought out non alcoholic serve. So I think it's, ht's, it's very sort of, ht it's great in terms of timing, how all that all happened and there's a few bars that really started perpetuating that movement.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    Wow. Okay. Evelyn, just on your point there about bartenders picking up, picking up on these great products coming into the market, do you feel that that was your, your community being leading that, or do you think it was a bit of both bartenders also being interested in providing those options in that, in with those drinks?

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    I think similarly to Australia, our bar community is pretty tight knit. It's a small community, but because it is still, you know, Canada and Canada is a little bit behind, I would say Europe and the U S in terms of trends and at least getting the products within our particular market. So that community really perpetuate movement whenever something comes in. So I think, you know, we started like the bar community started exploring that category, and then you see the consumer interest start rising, and we're really lucky to have a few really great drinks writers in our community as well. They kind of start talking about the trend, especially when it comes to the months leading up to holidays when there was another particular tie in, so say if you want to save money for the holidays, or you want to save your liver for the holidays, they have a health to sort of connect what we've discovered in the bar community with the consumer base. So I think it's a joint effort of everyone just having interest in that particular category. And then you can really see it growing after a little bit. Yeah.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    Yeah, definitely. And I did touch on it a little bit earlier, but obviously this is what what's been seen in the bars and, but we're spending a lot of time in our homes at the moment. Again, is, is it something that you think people are looking for more? Are there more people sort of approaching you in terms of those? I know you mentioned that you offer those options for everybody when they come into your programs online programs, but yeah. What's the appetite, I guess that you're, that you're sort of seeing there,

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    I think more and more people are finding out about these different options that I mentioned mentioning earlier, and there definitely is a desire for non-alcoholic serves. There's a huge sort of shift in terms of, you know, people really worrying about the mental health status of everybody, because they're so cooped up at home and, you know, previously it's just, you know, drink till you forget. But I think that mentality has sort of shifted because like we have to sort of preserve our health, especially right now, and also think about sort of the long-term effects. It has to a person's like emotions and mental stability when it comes to just kind of looking at whether or not you can still enjoy your experiences at home making it interesting, but not just going to the bottle. So I think that the desire is definitely there. And it's really nice to see that this is not something that's stopping or the non-alcoholic desire is not stopping. It's just, it's just growing because more products are popping up. Yeah,

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    It's one of those, trends. I think that the, the more data that's coming out, it's demonstrating that there, there are more people that are turning to as an option. 

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects) 

    And especially with holiday hosting too, obviously the holiday, I think kind of promoting moderation and you know, promoting that sort of lifestyle of a little bit just kind of looking after your health and looking after others is quite significant right now. So actually asked me, ok, what is, what is this, what can I do at home in terms of a host, even for my small group of the bubble of six or not to make sure that everyone still has a nice time and it's something special and they don't feel left out. Yeah,

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    That's really exciting. And I think particularly as you mentioned in the holidays, they, sometimes that with alcohol can fuel this idea of great, like enhancing that anxiety that we spoke about and situations can arise with family. And I think the, just having those options and having exciting options and something interesting for people to talk about is it just sort of enables that situation to diffuse and everyone to enjoy themselves those times that we are getting to spend together.

    So that that's really great to hear. I think we're still a little bit behind Canada. But I feel that again what we're seeing in our market. Seedlip is clearly one of the pioneers in this space and that's been great for a lot of other makers, but we are seeing a lot of our craft breweries and in Australia we do love our craft beer. But that, again, is what you've mentioned where witnessing to right now. So that's very exciting in terms of we, if we're going to continue following those tradition, that trajectory, we might be, be a bit further advanced going forward. So it's great.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    Good. That's very good to hear very good to hear and Australia has some very good craft breweries. So I'm guessing at some point they'll come up with really good non-alcoholic beers as well.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged) 

    It's certainly emerging that's for sure. There's a whole community of people chasing all those non-alcoholic beers and I'm loving seeing the development there.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    So we're going to move on to our, to our last topic, which is the one I'm most, most excited about, particularly I think coming, both Tania and I, what we call flavour explorers, I guess, is the best terminology. We love that we used to call ourselves flavour nerds. But I think it's a little bit more, it's a bit more than that. It's, it's, it's bringing together, sort of our experiences with different ingredients and botanicals and meshing them together and, being quite innovative in that space. And we love to listen to other people talk about drink creation, Tania, who unfortunately isn't able to be here today, but she actually was the Australian winner of the world tea brewing competition a couple of years ago, and, she created this beautiful beverage with different tea liquors, yellow tea and a pu-erh, and with some beetroot, and she speaks about her drink much better than I do.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    But I think what I really loved when I listened to your zero proof 101 tales of the cocktail was the way that you are able to break down the drinks that you were creating in that zero proof space. And it's probably the first time that I've heard it being broken down in a way that people can actually, that makes it approachable and makes it gives terms for the components of the drink that you're trying to bring together. So that's what I loved. So I can only imagine the programs that you did to come in through your EC projects. Fantastic. And it's something that I think we we'll definitely link to as well and share with our community given this whole new digital spaces, it's easy for people to access this great information and be part of things like that. So I w we will do that. So we have a common interest in, in this exploration of flavours. So I'd really, firstly, I'd love to know, like, what's your connection with tea because you, you do seem to like utilizing that ingredient and we'd love to hear a little bit more about that.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    Yeah. I love, I mean, I grew up in Hong Kong, so that's a crazy, you know, that's a, that's a culture that really takes into their love of tea very seriously. So as a child I've known how to sort of brew different styles of tea. How many times you have to steep it when you have to pour it out, the temperature water that you have to put in for each particular blend and whatnot. So I think, you know, I think my mum for that she loves tea. So, and I think that's a very nostalgic thing for me to constantly connect to. And obviously with growing up in Hong Kong, like the Asian flavours exposed to is very different than a lot of the ones in North America now.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    So, but I also find the tea category fascinating because, you know, for those who are just used to having, the black tea in the morning, and then there, you know, English breakfast or whatever, what not, they put milk and sugar in that sort of, how people think of tea, but there's so many different types. There's, you know, your herbals, you know, you have your red, your way, your yellow, your greens, and even within greens in any particular country, it's completely different and how they toast it, how they dry it, how they do different things. It's, it's fascinating to me. So, m love working with that just because of the diversity and the flavour profile that you can find in teas. And, t's not, it doesn't just have to be fruit or dark or Ruby or citrus forward. It could be like very savoury as well. So I think it kind of covers all the flavour profiles that you can taste.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    Yeah. I love hearing that. When in your work previous work of, in the bar was it an ingredient that you would utilise and, and is it an easy ingredient to utilise? Because I know some of the teas, we can get very complicated with it from a, from a Chinese brewing style perspective. But, but is it, is it a liked ingredient by bartenders, I guess is probably the question.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    Yeah. I think in the cocktail, like craft cocktail industry teas are utilised quite often, but I think a lot of the interests comes from infusing an alcoholic beverage with teas to begin with or infusing it in a simple syrup. And as I was mentioning before, a lot of people are sort of steering away from having things are high in sugar or trying to get something that is a little bit more natural in their kind of drink cycle or drink trends is up and coming. So I would say that the interest in the bartending community definitely stems from infusions and particularly with alcohol. So when I was creating different tea serves I definitely had to look into lots of different factors because if you're doing it without alcohol in a non alcoholic serve the stability of the particular tea is so different.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    So say if you were to infuse something in alcohol, the flavour would probably stay quite well. And depending on what you're seeping in, you don't really get the crazy amount of tannins that you would unless if you like how you would over steep a tea, like when you're doing water or a simple syrup. So I think in exploring that category, a lot of bartenders do tend to stick to tea infusions with alcohol or simple syrup's, which I think is fantastic because that's a really great way to get some flavours into a cocktail that is a little bit more complex than just the base ingredient. So if you were to say, do a a you know, pomegranate Rooibos, this tea versus just a pomegranate syrup, again, that'll be a little bit more complex as a base ingredients who that would contribute to a full of flavour cocktail without having to do much with the others. Absolutely. So in terms of, you know, non alcoholic tea making it's definitely a much, much more complex thing to deal with.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    Yeah. Yeah. I do like how you put that though, because I think people yeah, there, there is a level of like, understanding that needs to come, I think when you are working with tea in a non-alcoholic capacity because of those reasons that you mentioned. So yeah, that, that's, that's really, really interesting. How do you think we can hero tea more within our non-alcoholic drinks? And I'd really like to bring this back to people working with the ingredient and the home, because I know that you're about accessibility for approaching these drinks as well. So we'd love to, I'd love to hear your thoughts there.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    I think it's more just education. So I'm very lucky that I've gotten quite a bit of experience working with people are very good with Tea like, I wouldn't say particularly that I'm a tea expert. I'm just, I really love the flavour profile, but there are a lot of local tea purveyors that I would definitely recommend if you are interested in, non-alcoholic serves to just chat with, because as you know, people who enjoy tea love talking about it, no planning with them about it, because they are the ones who understand sort of what ingredients that grow in that go in it that makes that particular blend so special. So in terms of people at home usually when I do cocktail classes, I try to relate whatever I'm making to something that they're very used to. So say for example, if I were to make a a non-alcoholic tea lemonade then I would kind of explain it in a way where, okay, this is kind of how you steep your regular English breakfast, but in this particular serve, this is how much you have, how much more you have to put in and how much shorter of a time you have to do.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    So it kind of cuts off before the tannins come out and tannins means bitterness. So have you ever tasted something where you're like, Oh, this is kind of bitter and I don't know why that's so kind of explaining it and breaking it down in a way where they can relate to. And I think that's why I find success in a lot of virtual home classes, because I'm able to sort of break it down and talk about it in a language that they understand. And I feel like all this kind of comes back to inclusivity and hence, you know, the full circle ness of this particular category is because at one point or another in our lives, we've definitely have had non-alcoholic drinks, but is it as like, well thought out and as complex as we try to make it now? Probably not.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    Yeah, absolutely. It's evolving in that way. Isn't it? Right.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    Yeah. So I think it's this about relate-ability and being able to explain it in a way where the language is approachable and global, so

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    Fantastic. No, I love that. And I guess our final question for you today and what what we wanted to really bring your out is, is your expertise, I guess, but we'd love to know some of your top tips for creating a well-built balanced tea zero proof drink in the home,

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    Right? So my, my tip and only tip ever that I tell everybody is pick something you like, because if the craziest thing it's such a simple thing, but a lot of flavours that people particularly experience that they love, they're not sure why. And I think they just gravitate towards the same things because of familiarity. And I think that's a wonderful thing. So I would always say, you know, start with something you like. So if you don't particularly like the flavour of black tea and you prefer green or something, I would definitely pick that first. And another thing about teas is you have to understand the ingredient. So again, if you overstep something it's going to be a little bit more bitter, or if you don't add enough of the leaves in the particular plans to say, like for herbal, you add a little bit more grams of that particular blends because it takes a little bit more time and it takes a little bit more of the ingredient to actually get the flavours to pop. So understanding the ingredients very important. And look at Tea like how you would look at elongating your drink. So I wouldn't say look at it. It is something that you can use as a base just as it is. So say if you alter the properties of it and and my tales of the cocktail seminar, that I'm really glad you're putting the link up on, because I don't even know that it's up. So it's pretty, yeah.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    Talk about tea concentrates. So what I do with kind of utilizing those really beautiful tea flavours as a base ingredient for a non-alcoholic drink, I would steep the tea, how the tea, the purveyor or the tea maker would recommend, and I would reduce it to strengthen the flavour. So that way you're not actually altering what the recommended method to just to brew the tea is and preserve all of those beautiful flavours that they're intended to be in. So now, if you alter the texture and the strength of the tea, then you can start using it as a base for your non-alcoholic drink. So for example, if you were to make, I always go back to lemonade, because it's just the easiest thing, everyone knows what it is. I love it. I love it. We're coming in to summer here.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    So [inaudible], I've actually been really, really popular on my Instagram feed. Yeah. So on my Instagram feed at Evelyn Chick, I've put up some beautiful sort of fall hot drink cocktails, and it kind of includes a bunch of tea recipes. So definitely go check it out. And that in terms of, you know, going into summer and you're looking to do a non-alcoholic serve that's a little bit more interesting a lemonade base is great. And you don't necessarily have to use white sugar or simple syrup as a sugar additive. So if you just alter that sugar additive a little bit say using natural honey, and I'm sure there's lots of Australia's really good honey. Yeah. Or in Canada, we do maple syrup or, or something that's a little bit more natural that you can pick up with a little bit of citrus. And again, it doesn't need to be lemon.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    It could be, you know, yuzu or kumquats or something that's a little bit more acidic and floral. You can use the tea as a lengthener or how you would say soda or, you know pop or water that kind of lengthens the drink. And that adds another dimension. So if you were to say, build a summer forward lemonade for your backyard party and you mix together some honey and some lemon, and you kind of think about, I always think about drinks, like how I would creating a dish. So what goes well with honey? I know cantaloupes do and you know, pretty much like mint or strawberries or what not like all that kind of goes with it. I would probably go with a tea that's a little bit lighter and brighter, like a white tea or a fruit tea or something like that.

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    And if you were in Canada and you are going into about two degrees Celsius, I would probably keep some flame that's a little bit more warming, like a chai paired with, maybe an orange marmalade and like throw some Sage in it, you know? So you're kind of looking at it like how you would create a dish and looking at flavours that may or may not be very similar to each other, but can compliment each other in terms of flavour. So I think a lot of it is just again, like breaking down the ingredients and looking at, the associated ingredients. And I think, you know, the third tip is just to make sure your mind is open and you're being creative and having fun.

    Kym Cooper (East Forged)

    Fantastic. I love it. I love it. There's some really great tips there and I, I can't say enough, go and have a look at Evelyn's Instagram feed. There is, there is an amazing drink. I think you put up there the other day called a Matchata. Yeah, it is so much fun. And I think yeah, just, just shows I guess the way that you approach your drink making and, and bringing that element of interest into it. So yeah, it's great. Evelyn, thank you so much for your time today. I think that that really covers everything that we really wanted to talk to you about, and that's been some really great tips and about creating zero proof drinks or non alcoholic drinks. And I think it's certainly a very exciting category. And I guess in terms of, if people wanted to sort of connect with you, how is that, how is the best way

    Evelyn Chick (EC Projects)

    The best way to do that is probably just hop on my Instagram at Evelyn chick or go on my website, Evelyn chick projects.com. They're pretty easy to remember. And I usually look at both of those quite often, cause I've actually been getting a lot of interest in non-alcoholic serves lately, which is why, you know, again, it just attest to the fact that this category is in fact not a trend and here to stay. And yeah, I'm just excited to continue developing these recipes. And a lot of my friends actually have a, do not imbibe, perhaps stopped in by being in the last few years. So, you know, for someone who does drink alcohol, like I love kind of exploring these new categories because I know that there's always going to be an audience.

     

    Links to Evelyn's website and Zero 101 masterclass are located in description on East Forged Youtube video .